The Impact of 40 Years of VOCA: Conversations With the Field: Episode 1

MEREDITH TIBBETTS: Welcome to Justice Today, the official podcast of the Department of Justice's Office of Justice Programs (OJP), where we shine a light on cutting-edge research and practices and offer an in-depth look at what we're doing to meet the biggest public safety challenges of our time. Join us as we explore how funding, science, and technology help us achieve strong communities.

KRIS ROSE: Hello. My name is Kris Rose, and I'm the director of the Office for Victims of Crime in the Office of Justice Programs at the Department of Justice. I'm delighted to welcome you to our podcast series commemorating the 40th anniversary of the Victims of Crime Act, or VOCA. The first podcast in the series features three icons in the victim services field who have been actively serving victims and advocating for better victim-related policy since VOCA was first past 40 years ago. And they are Anne Seymour, Steve Siegel, and Herman Millholland. 

The second podcast uplifts the voices of some of our newer advocates who are just getting started in their careers. We'll be talking to Abrianna Morales, the program manager for the Victim Advocacy Corps, a project funded by OVC and administered by the National Organization for Victim Advocacy. She'll be joined by two Victim Advocacy Corps members, Grace Chungu and Thanh Nguyen. 

As we look back at the advances that have been made on behalf of crime victims over the past four decades, it's important to look ahead at how we see the next 40 years unfolding. What are the issues that continue to hinder victims and survivors from finding the justice that they seek? What more can we do to ensure that all of those who serve survivors understand how trauma impacts behavior during and after violent crime? Where have we, as a field, fallen short and need to redirect our efforts? What motivates us to keep doing this work, knowing that progress takes time? 

As background, the victims’ rights movement was active before the 1980s, but it came to a critical juncture when nine people in 1982 were tasked by the president of the United States with examining the criminal justice response to crime victims and recommending how it could be improved. This had never been done before. And little did they know that the report that they produced, the final report of the President's Task Force on Victims of Crime, would create a seismic shift in our response to crime victims, and it would become the foundation of the Victims of Crime Act, the Crime Victims Fund, and my office, the Office for Victims of Crime. 

Since VOCA became law in 1984, more than $38 billion have been invested in local programs that provide mental health, housing, legal assistance, victim advocacy, crisis intervention, and other services to help victims and survivors heal and reclaim their lives.

Recently, I took the time to reread portions of the 1982 report and I was struck by what I read. The task force was way ahead of its time. Though we consider it best practice now to include survivors when making recommendations about criminal justice policy or practice, it wasn't common back then, but the task force pioneers did it. They relied on the voices of survivors to give legitimacy, practicality, and the authenticity to their recommendations. The report even includes a section called Victims of Crime in America that provides quotes from survivors, excerpts from their task force testimony, and, most interestingly, a bold first-person dramatization of what a victim endures. It represents a composite of a victim of crime in America. 

Lois Haight Herrington, the chair of the task force, wrote a compelling opening statement for the report, and in it, she says, “The important proposals contained here will not be clear unless you first confront the human reality of victimization. Few are willing to do so. Unless you are, however, you will not be able to understand.”

She understood the importance of placing the reader in the shoes of a survivor to understand the terror, the trauma, and the life-altering changes that occur when you or someone you love has been impacted by crime. Without that critical-level setting, it's just too easy to ignore, overlook, or dismiss the reality of what a crime victim endures and the heavy burden that they carry.

At OVC, it is our job to carry out many of the ideals, the solutions, and the promises that the task force members put forth in their report close to a half century ago. And in order to effectively plan for the future for these next 40 years, since the passage of VOCA, it's important to understand the past and examine the lessons we've learned and the victories that we have won.

So let's meet our wonderful guests today and get started with our discussion.

Thank you for being willing to mark this important anniversary with us. I'm excited to have this discussion and I know that you all will have so many wonderful stories and experiences and just thoughts about how our field has changed over the past 40 years. 

Why don't each one of you introduce yourself to the podcast? Steve, why don't we start with you?

STEVE SIEGEL: Hi, I'm Steve Siegel. I'm a proud Coloradan by way of New York. And I have spent 45 years doing this work. And it has been the honor of my life to do the work and to work with the people who surround me: the caretaker warriors of victim services.

KRIS ROSE: Beautiful. Herman?

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: Good morning. I'm Herman Millholland, and greetings from Los Angeles. I am celebrating 40 years of this incredible work. And it seems to be that this is a big year: 40 years for me in victim services, the anniversary of VOCA, and I think it was 30 years of VAWA. I'm just so proud of the opportunity to sit today with my colleagues and friends, to uh  talk a little bit about the history of victim services.  

KRIS ROSE: Thank you, Herman. Anne?

ANNE SEYMOUR: I am Anne Seymour. I am a 40-year national victim advocate based in Washington, D.C. So, 40 years of VOCA makes VOCA my sister. I am currently the associate academic program director for the National Mass Violence Center. And I'm not a mathematician, but I think the four of us equal over 150 years in the victim/survivor assistance field, which is pretty amazing.

KRIS ROSE: That is pretty amazing. So, I'm going to ask you a series of questions, and each one of you can add what you would like to that question. So, what are some of your memories of what it was like for survivors prior to VOCA being passed? Herman? 

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: One of my first roles or jobs in victim services was serving as a director of the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Victim Assistance Program, a prosecutor-based victim assistance program. And one of the things that I found interesting in those really early days, and this was, in the mid-1980s, was that outreach at local law enforcement agencies were often limited and victims were often not informed and notified about victim services, which meant that we were missing many, many victims. And then as, as cases were being reviewed and forwarded over to the prosecutor's office, we'd get these, what we call charge sheets, and we, as advocates, would have to go in daily and review those charge sheets and then reach out to victims. Sometimes we would get the charge sheets from all the different law enforcement agencies, and sometimes we would miss them. So, I often worried about the fact that we were not able to reach all, all of the victims. 

I recognize that, you know, back then, there were no technologies. So, the way that my advocates kept track of their cases was, they were on 3-by-5 cards, which I just thought was interesting. We had a whole wall of file cabinets with 3-by-5 cards, and this is how we kept track of victims. So, that also concerned me as well, because we needed a very different way to manage that. Oftentimes, notifications were a concern, or the ability of victims to give victim impact statements. Notifications about trials and court dates and things like that, those were really difficult because we would miss victims.  Finally, victim compensation, then, also was difficult to access for many victims and survivors. And then, when payments were approved, or eligibility was approved, it would take, you know, literally months before families would see reimbursement as well as service providers. So, those were the memories that I have from how we served the victims back in those early days in the 1980s.

KRIS ROSE: Yeah, it was before we had a lot of the systems that we have now to be able to track survivors as they go through the system, and document the conversations we've had with them as advocates, and to be able to use technology for notification as well. So, yeah, it was difficult to keep track back then. Steve, what are your thoughts? 

STEVE SIEGEL: My very first day on the job, a young woman came in with her dad, and for some reason, they ended up in the prosecutor's office to report that she had been sexually abused on a date. And the problem for us is she was deaf, and we had no deaf interpreters. And the only way we could get this story was for her dad to have to hear that story and interpret for us. It was chilling the entire time we sat with her. And I found this quote from Lois Haight Herrington from the president's task force from back in those days. And it reads, “The innocent victims of crime have been overlooked, their pleas for justice have gone unheeded, and their wounds—personal, emotional, and financial--have gone unattended.” That wraps it up of what it was like for me pre-VOCA. We've come a long way.

KRIS ROSE: We have come a long way. And one of the best things that we have done, I believe, is we have put mechanisms into place so that we can serve victims that have disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing. I don't think we're doing the best, but at least there is attention and people are so much more cognizant around the issues of access to services and making sure that all victims have access to all services. Anne, I know that you have a few stories to share. 

ANNE SEYMOUR: So, Kris, my memories of what it was like for survivors before VOCA was more of a nightmare for crime victims and survivors. Victim services were few and far between. Some law enforcement agencies, Steve, some prosecutor's offices, got very small amounts of LEAA funding. But if you are a rape crisis center or domestic violence shelter or another NGO, you were scraping for funding. And I remember people doing bake sales, and raffles, and things to raise money just for victim services. And I also need to address victims’ rights were practically nonexistent in 1984. 

And all three of us, remember hearing directly from Roberta and Vince Roper about the kidnaping sexual assault, torture, and murder of their daughter Stephanie in 1982. And Robbie, powerfully speaking, told a story of the defense attorney calling her to the witness stand so she could just say, “I am Stephanie's mother.” And then she was booted from the courtroom, and she watched the trial through the little courtroom window with people coming out and giving her updates because she couldn't hear what was going on. And I remember thinking something is really wrong if that is how we're treating Roberta Roper. And it was an impetus, I think, for a lot of folks who heard her lived experience to really commit to change, which I think has been extremely positive over the last 40 years.

KRIS ROSE: Well, and the beautiful thing is that Roberta took that experience and was able to become a real pioneer and hero in this work. And, you know, my understanding is that Roberta is responsible for over 100 bills in support of victims’ rights being passed in the state of Maryland. We never want anyone to go through what Roberta went through when Stephanie was murdered.

Where do you think that VOCA has had the most impact at the national level? And, Steve, I'm going to go to you. Because even though you were working at the local level, you have been a prominent personality at the national level as well. If there's somebody who does not know Steve Siegel, I don't know who that person is. So, talk to us about where you think VOCA had an impact at the national level?

STEVE SIEGEL: You know, Norm and I early on took up this mantra that we would do the best we can, but we'd also find the best in the country and steal whatever we could and put that together. And VOCA really allowed everyone to do that.

When I teach, I don't want you to pay attention to what we do here in Denver. I want you to pay attention to the universal principles of what this work is, and do it for your jurisdiction. And it eventually gave birth to you putting out the funding for Victim Service 2000, which really became an opportunity for the entire country to see the one word that's the most important word in what we do, and that's collaboration.

KRIS ROSE: Herman, we know that one of the objectives of the Victim Services 2000 was around technology. Can you talk about one of the most important influences that technology has had on the victim services field and that is on victim notification as we mentioned a little bit earlier.

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: Absolutely, Kris. I think the best way to sort of talk about this is, you know, connecting it to victims specifically. And back in the, about 1990, 93, there was a young lady named Mary Byron who was, unfortunately, murdered by her boyfriend, who was released from prison. But Mary's family, were not notified. It was such an outcry that there were a couple of young tech wizards back in probably about the late 90s who developed this system called VINE (Victim Information and Notification Everyday). And this system was designed to provide local law enforcement booking systems in jails as well in corrections with an automated system that would notify victims of the release of their offender. And VINE was, I think, revolutionary and served as a lifeline to victims around the country, and it still is today.

VOCA played a very important role because as the bulk of funding became available, programs were able to use some of their funding to contract to have this system placed in their communities. And that really gave victims a sense of relief, a sense of safety. And I would often hear victims say, “Every night, I would call the 1-800 VINE number and check to make sure my offender was still in jail. And once I did that, I was able to go to sleep at night.” So VOCA played a very important role in helping communities across the nation have access to this really important piece of technology that is still very, very much a part of the fabric of victim services today.

KRIS ROSE: I can't imagine our system without something like that. And I think your point about safety is well taken, because we know that one of the most important things to survivors of violent crime is just to be able to find ways to feel safe. And thank goodness that we have that and are able to continue funding the VINE system. Anne, what are your thoughts?

ANNE SEYMOUR: My thoughts is really focused on, you, Kris, and the leaders of OVC. As everyone on this podcast knows, I always call OVC the mothership of victim services since its inception. You know, if we talk about underserved victims, the issues have been salient from the early 1980s to today. And just a couple of examples is Director Jane Burnley focused attention on victims and survivors in Indian Country. There was literally nothing there for them, and she created a web of services that you and OVC today continue to support. It's just been something that has been very, very uplifting. 

Director Kathryn Turman focused on victims of terrorism and mass violence. And that wasn't something that was even on our radar when our field began 40 years ago. Director John Gillis, a survivor himself, focused on micro-grants to small mom and pop organizations: $5,000, $10,000. It doesn't seem like a great amount of funding, but it was amazing to those groups to be able to use that funding to support their victim services. And Kris, I always think of you in terms of expanding access to victim services and Steve's project Victim Services 2000. The theme was “No Wrong Doors,” and I think your focus on accessibility has opened doors and made us, as victim advocates, visualize open doors instead of the slamming doors that we were used to for the first 20 years of our field--that you've really, with OVC, made us focus on the fact that all victims deserve and need access to victim services. 

KRIS ROSE: And that's why, you know, we've had such a focus also on nontraditional partners at OVC because we know that crime victims will--are not always going to open up to the folks we think that they will. You know, they may not go to law enforcement. They may not, necessarily go to a victim advocate. You know, they may not even know what one is. But they might talk to their clergy or they may mention something to the person that is doing their hair that day or their nails. So it's so important for all of us within the community to play a part in being able to connect victims to services. And I think you're absolutely right. That's where that “No Wrong Door” comes in.  

ANNE SEYMOUR: And I feel like that's been your message, Kris, is that everyone can be a victim advocate. Everyone can have basic skills and know how to ask the right questions, to know not to blame victims and survivors, and to be able to link them to services. And I do think that's going to be your amazing legacy and that of OVC over your term. It's been phenomenal. 

KRIS ROSE: That's very kind, and it has been the privilege of a lifetime to be able to spread that message. Is there an area within victim services that you would like to see improved? Are there areas where we can do better?

STEVE SIEGEL: I think there are more areas than we can do better than we had come this far in 50 years. And I think it touches on what you said, Kris, and what Ann said, about no wrong door. The places that people feel comfortable talking about their victimization are doors that we can open so much further and build so much easier paths to service. The latest one for us is you can't do witness protection if you don't understand victim services. So, there's so much more work to be done.  

KRIS ROSE: And we know that, in Denver, you all were very much ahead of the curve around some of these areas. Anne, can you talk a little bit about victims’ rights enforcement as an area where we really needed a lot of improvement? 

ANNE SEYMOUR: I'd love to, Kris. And we still need a lot of improvement. And you all probably remember maybe 25 years ago, I would tell people to quit passing victims’ rights laws. And people would look at me in shock, but I would say, let's work on implementing the laws that we have. And to me, to pass laws that had no way to enforce them I thought it was insulting to victims. 

And I think one of the biggest accomplishments was efforts in the late 1980s, at the state level, to pass state constitutional amendments led by survivors Bob Preston in Florida, led by survivor Roberta Roper in Maryland, and by a field that was ready to say victims have the right to be present, heard, and informed across criminal justice proceedings. And I remember we went state by state, by state, by state, slowly, but really rigorously. And we now have 35 plus states that have state-level constitutional amendments that give more enforcement mechanisms to victims. A big part of it is it educates criminal justice professionals about victims’ rights. That seems silly. You would think that the law enforcement, prosecutor, judges would know all about the different victims’ rights. I never make that assumption, and I think it's up to us as victim advocates to tell them about victims’ rights and victim services so that they're aware that they have those obligations. 

KRIS ROSE: You make a fantastic point there. I remember back when, I believe it was in California, and it had to do with victim impact statements, and it was enabling victims for the first time to be able to have the right to make a victim impact statement. And that one of the early issues around that was that there was no outreach and education. So, victims, the right was there, but they had no idea that it was there. So, it just doesn't make sense to be able to have these bills of rights, to have these amendments to the state constitutions, but not let people know they exist because it's the only way that they're going to be effective. Are there ways that some states or jurisdictions that you're aware of are doing that now? 

STEVE SIEGEL: I think we have forged really meaningful partnerships with news medias--not just the televisions, not just the radios, but, all of the social medias, the newspapers--and that leads to stories of interest that are about the work that's being done or, frankly, about cases where we screw up. But it, for me, it all goes back to what Anne said about enforcement. If you want to change the criminal justice system, you better have the ability to at least show your hammer. And if it's necessary, take it out. 

ANNE SEYMOUR: And I want to add, I think, when we started with state amendments, we were actually pretty excited about being punitive for justice officials who weren't enforcing victims’ rights. And we realized, that was the absolute wrong approach. And I think in a lot of states now, if someone doesn't enforce a victim's rights, we can educate them. And that's part of the process. Not to come in and, you know, fine them, or punish them, or make them feel bad. It's just saying, you don't understand. We are here to help you understand and to be of better service to victims. And also, don't break the law. The law is victims have rights. It's that simple. 

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: The biggest issue is education. Educating the field, educating law enforcement, educating prosecutors, educating individuals within the community about the rights that victims have. And as you were you talking, Kris, about victim impact statements in California, that certainly was one of the biggest issues. You know, we would have cases, but we would, you know, not always be as supportive as we needed to be in ensuring that victims had the right to make a victim impact statement. That was always one of the most difficult pieces. One, notifying victims, having them to do it, making sure that prosecutors made that happen. So those were all challenges that we had, you know, in those early days. 

And as you were talking, I remembered, Suzanne McDaniel. Suzanne McDaniel is an old friend and colleague of ours. And I can remember working with Suzanne and some of our local legislators as we were passing legislation in Texas and testifying before committees on victims’ rights, enacting some of those rights in Texas. And Suzanne McDaniel was really instrumental in helping to make that happen. We did some great work on behalf of crime victims and really able to create rights that were important and impactful for them. So I was just thinking about Suzanne today and that work. 

STEVE SIEGEL: You know, we just came back from Saint Louis. And every employee working victim services in the police department and in conjunction with the prosecutor’s office is an employee of the Crime Victims Center, which was started by Ed Stout back in the 70s, I believe, but they have grown to be focused on how can we help government institutions collaborate with the community. It's a wonderful thing to see those kind of Suzanne and Ed histories coming to life, staying in line.

ANNE SEYMOUR: I think my amazing fact is that the three organizations that are considered among the very first victim assistance programs, Bay Area Women Against Rape in Oakland, Aid for Victims of Crime in Saint Louis, and here in DC, the DC Rape Crisis Center are all still going, thriving, serving victims. And I want you to think about that. Over 50 years, each of these organizations, which, to me is just a testament to the commitment of folks in our field to carry on despite the challenges we face. And I'm going to start crying in a minute. You can't bring up Suzanne McDaniel.

KRIS ROSE: I feel you, Anne. This year, as we have been commemorating, we've also been taking the time to look ahead and think about what things are going to look like. You know, 5 or 10 years. And one of the issues that we are grappling with right now is so many of the wonderful, life changing programs that VOCA was able to fund are in danger of not continuing because the Crime Victims Fund has an uncharacteristically low balance. At its peak, the Crime Victims Fund had over $13 billion in it, all nontaxpayer money coming from fines and penalties from convicted federal cases. And I'm very concerned about the sustainability of crime victim programs. And what it is going to mean for the field if we are not able to find ways to improve the health and solvency of the Crime Victims Fund? Herman, I wonder if you can just give us your thoughts around that issue of sustainability for the Crime Victims Fund.

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: Absolutely, Kris. You know, you know, as we're sitting here and talking together, just thinking about, you know, the whole victims’ rights movement began with grassroots organizations, small nonprofit organizations that were out there doing the great work. And when I think about the Crime Victims Fund today and the thousands of nonprofit programs around the country that really rely on that funding, the thought of potentially losing funding or a reduction in funding for many of these programs will be the difference between keeping the doors open, and able, and their ability to serve, to serve crime victims. I also think about individuals who need services, or have hospital bills that need to be paid, or mental health counseling, or other related services as a, as a result of their victimization and compensation programs that rely on VOCA funding.

States really rely heavily on VOCA funding to help pay crime victim compensation claims. And the thought of, of victims not being able to have their medical bills paid, or their counseling, or  funerals paid for as a result of not having VOCA, that would just be devastating. Also, you know, how VOCA funds are derived, meaning the fact that U.S. Attorneys, attorneys in general, when they are trying cases, making sure that fines and fees are ordered so it will go into the fund and so that and judges also making sure that that happens. So there's an education component that we have to also consider, you know. These issues are up front right now and something that we're all concerned about.

ANNE SEYMOUR: All of us have been through the boon and bust of VOCA, the ups and downs of VOCA funding. None of us knows any local program that can sustain a 40% cut. There is none out there. It's absolutely devastating. People are tired of not having consistent funding for crime victims. There are states, and I know New York is one, Iowa--Kris, you probably know others--where the states have stepped in to make up the gap in VOCA funding. They are taking this very, very seriously. And I can tell you as someone who is mad and not going to take it anymore, and helping organizing at the national level, I've never seen an outpouring of organizations, little organizations, state level, national organizations, state coalitions. It feels different this time because I think we're tired after 40 years. The anniversary of VOCA is also 40 years of fighting for the sustainability of VOCA. And that should not be part of our future.

STEVE SIEGEL: I know that at least in Colorado, we have let the philanthropy world off the hook because of our funds that we get statewide and from VOCA. But I, I believe that education effort that we talked about earlier has to extend to the large foundations and the small foundations of our communities that can bring a different source of funds to the table to do some of the things that we've talked about earlier.

KRIS ROSE: I have a great example of how the fear of the insolvency of the Crime Victims Fund has resonated with the field. And that is this year for the first time, we didn't have very much discretionary money because of the cuts in VOCA last year. But with the money we did have we started a new solicitation to cover basic services for victims of crime so that some of those community organizations that are located on the margins that didn't have enough to be able to provide housing, or food, or transportation, or mental health counseling--again, some of those basic needs--that OVC would offer a modest amount of money, but to help them make those ends meet. It was only for communities in underserved areas. And we got more applications for that solicitation than any other solicitation that we have done under the discretionary program. We received over 450 applications, and we have had to enlist over 70 peer reviewers. And I think it's because folks are worried that the funding is not going to be there in the future. So, they are going for whatever they can at this point. And we've seen applications increase in other areas of funding as well. But this one blew us out of the water. 

ANNE SEYMOUR: That's the ultimate lesson learned. These are desperate times for victim service organizations. And thank you and OVC for recognizing that. And, you know, grants that address basic, basic needs of victims. How important is that? That's just a wonderful lesson learned for all of us.

KRIS ROSE: Yeah. Well, hopefully we can continue this program in the future. I want to switch gears a little bit at this point. And we've referenced earlier some of the giants in the field. And just so you know, I consider the three of you to be three of those giants in the field. And your contributions are really immeasurable. But I'm wondering who are your giants? Who have been your influences and have kept you inspired?

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: I did mention earlier because we all loved Suzanne McDaniel, so she was always a giant to me. She was a woman who really devoted her life to ensuring that victims receive the services that they were so entitled to. And we would spend many evenings long after everyone went home after work, just problem solving how we were going to make sure that our programs were running smoothly, victims were being served, and Suzanne was instrumental in that. 

A couple of other giants for me. I can remember my very first NOVA conference. It was 1990, in Anaheim, California. It's my first time going to a conference. And I'm sitting in this giant ballroom and this woman comes out and she begins to talk to us and share this information. She was powerful and just inspiring, and that was Marlene Young. When you left the conference, you were energized, and charged up, and ready to go out and do the great work that she really encouraged us and inspired us to do. And along with Marlene, was her partner and husband, John Stein, who was part of, you know, NOVA's larger organization. And I do believe he was responsible for all the legislative work that happened behind the scenes, and both John and Marlene together were a powerful, powerful force. 

KRIS ROSE: And I believe they started in their, the basement of their house, or it was a very modest setup when NOVA first became an organization under their founding and leadership. And to see the, you know, the juggernaut that NOVA is in the field now, it’s more evidence that we've come a long way. Anne, what about you? Who is it that inspires you?

ANNE SEYMOUR: I mentioned early, Robbie Roper. To me, Robbie represents survivor activists. And so while Roberta Roper is my one just angel on my shoulder across my entire career to this day, it is the thousands of survivor advocates and survivor activists that we have all met that you look to for inspiration, you admire because they take the power of their personal story and they find immense purpose in the pain that they go through. And they do it because they don't want someone else to have to go through what they did. And to me, that is the beauty of our field and that is who I admire.

STEVE SIEGEL: Well, I have three. The first one was the woman who raised me. I was raised by a very, very strong, powerful woman, who I think instilled my desire to do this kind of work. But in the field, I had the great blessing of working for and with my dear friend Norm Early, who was the first African American elected prosecutor in Colorado, the first president of the National Black Prosecutors Association, one of the first presidents of NOVA. And I think he was just born a victim advocate. 

And then finally, all of us spent many years happy that we could get a hug from Bob Preston, who also survived the murder of his daughter, became the architect and the driving force for the constitutional amendment in Florida, and then the blessing was he moved to Colorado. And he and I co-chaired Colorado's efforts to pass the sixth constitutional amendment in the United States. Bob was everything you could want in an advocate.

KRIS ROSE: we're so lucky to have worked alongside so many of them. I'm just going to throw in one of mine. Of course, Roberta Roper. I just hold her up so high and have been following her since the murder of her daughter. And I'm so grateful for the influence and the changes that she's been able to make in the crime victims field. But there was someone else, and that was Janet Reno, who was our attorney general at one point and she was able to see victims of crime in a way that others at the federal level were just not able to. She especially was able to see victims in Tribal communities. She was so inspirational to all of us in the Department. And especially those of us who worked on crime victim issues, because we knew that she got it, and she got it way before she came to DOJ. She got it when she was a prosecutor and, so she was just a wonderful inspiration for us at the federal level.

ANNE SEYMOUR: And Kris, my favorite story of her, if she would get in her big red pickup truck and drive to victim service programs and sometimes invited, sometimes she would just stop by unannounced because that is who she was. She was an amazing leader who really got the needs of victims and survivors. So, good pick.

STEVE SIEGEL: And, you know, she didn't drive a red pickup truck, but she flew out, to Colorado after Columbine High School, and she didn't give a speech, and she didn't meet with politicians. She asked for a room. And in that room were all of the victims and victims’ families. And she's she must have been there for 4 or 5 hours just listening to stories, hugging people. She was from another planet. She was a wonderful woman.

KRIS ROSE: At her going away, her farewell party at the Department, I waited and waited and waited in line just to be able to say something to her and I said to her, Miss Reno, you know, “You have been such an inspiration to me.” And her response was, “And you have been an inspiration to me.” And she did not know me, but the feeling that she left me with as, you know, kind of a mid-level professional, I’ve just never forgotten that. 

So Anne, can you talk a little to us about the history of VOCA and what the lead-up was to VOCA being signed?

ANNE SEYMOUR: You know, the lead-up of VOCA began with Lois Haight Herrington, who we’ve already discussed, and the amazing President's Task Force on Victims of Crime, which was published in 1982. It had over 62 recommendations really specific to victims’ rights and services, but one of the most important recommendations under proposed federal actions was, basically, the Victims of Crime Act, that we should have sustained funding for victim services. 

The thing that was interesting to me about VOCA is that it was introduced in Congress with strong bipartisan support. It was passed with strong bipartisan support in both the House and the Senate. I have to thank and remember with just great admiration, Representative Pete Rodino from New Jersey, who was the principal author. But there are also several co-sponsors who are still in public service that I'd like to site: Ohio Governor Mike DeWine, Maryland Representative Steny Hoyer, and yes, our President Joe Biden. They were the ones who led the fight in both the House and the Senate. 

VOCA passes the House, it passes the Senate, and it gets to President Reagan to sign. Lois, again president's task force chair, tells about a meeting with President Reagan and then-OMB Director David Stockman in the Oval Office. And Lois was telling President Reagan, himself a crime victim of an attempted assassination, why VOCA was so important to crime victims. And David Stockman was arguing that it was just another entitlement program, if you will, sort of like Social Security. And I'm paraphrasing, but Lois said President Reagan said, you mean to tell me that people are going to go out and get bonked on the head just so that they can get a little money, is what he asked Mr. Stockman and Lois said, I knew at that point, I had him. He signed VOCA into law. And as we are discussing here today, it has been a 40-year game changer for our field. So I think it's important to recognize the co-sponsors of VOCA, the president's task force, Kris, and certainly President Reagan. All of them were the trailblazers that were the impetus behind VOCA becoming the law that we love so much today.

KRIS ROSE: Thank you so much for that, Anne, and it must have been such an exciting time.

ANNE SEYMOUR: It was. I had been a victim advocate for about 2 minutes. We were working on the 21 Drinking Age Bill with Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and we kept passing these victim folks in the Hall of Congress and they said, “What are you doing?” “Twenty-one drinking age bill.” “What are you doing?” “Victims of Crime Act.” I said, “We're a little busy right now.” And they said, “When you're done with that, come join us.” And we did. Mothers Against Drunk Driving became among the biggest proponents of the passage of VOCA 40 years ago this month.

KRIS ROSE: That's amazing. I love these stories. I could listen to them all day. I'd like to touch on how VOCA helped to really professionalize the field through education, through training and technical assistance. And I know you've each had experience in those areas. Anne, can you start us out with that?

ANNE SEYMOUR: VOCA funding, not only created the National Mass Violence Center at the Medical University of South Carolina, where I work, but it also created the AEAP funding program, which has helped create 25 active resiliency centers in communities that have been impacted by mass violence. And, you know, it goes beyond the training and technical assistance that we provide. It really is communities helping each other. And I just, I think about the different leaders in communities. When another mass violence incident occurs, they call their peers. The victim advocates from one mass violence experience pay it forward to the next group. And so, it really is mutual support and training and technical assistance. And everyone here knows we have come up with some amazing best practices in mass violence readiness, response, recovery, and resilience. And that would not have happened without VOCA. 

STEVE SIEGEL: If we want the sustainability, if we have earned the sustainability but have it going forward, it's going to be because we train people: lessons learned, new things from the field, how to build true collaborations. All of these things have to be--it's our job as the elders to teach the new people and let them have a platform from which to build, and VOCA was the key to that. We could not have done this work up until now, and we won't do it tomorrow unless VOCA is there for us.

KRIS ROSE: Yeah, the training and technical assistance has just been such a huge pillar in our work to be able to improve services for victims of crime. Because it's that support for the providers, right, that is so necessary by educating folks about best practices, new practices that have come along, and making sure that folks are trained in trauma-informed care. Herman, I know that you were involved in the National Victim Assistance Academies. Can you talk a little bit about that? 

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: Oh, absolutely. You know, one of what I've always thought was one of the premier training opportunities was through OVC’s National Victim Assistance Academy. And I had the wonderful opportunity of serving as an instructor, teaching all of the new victim advocates that would come through in the tracks that were created. We had brand new advocates that came in, and there was a track for them. And then we had a leadership track that I was always just so happy to be a part of. And you know, training and professionalizing our field has always been at the top of mind in terms of making sure that advocates had all the best information, armed with everything they needed to go out and provide services to victims. And one of the ways that that happened was through the National Victim Assistance Academy. That was an entire week, 8 hours a day for 5 days of intensive training, with some of the top, you know, victim advocates and instructors, which included Anne and Steve and many of our other colleagues as, as instructors and, I, I think of all the trainings that I have had an opportunity to participate in, that by far was one of the best.

ANNE SEYMOUR: And, Herman, I want to just tag on to that. Since we were all part of the origin of the National Victim Assistance Academy in 1994. We had a 800-page bulletproof binder. We had hundreds of students at five university campuses across the country. And after we quit doing onsite academies, OVC--Kris, I'm not going to say seamlessly because I know it was hard-- but you transferred this amazing curriculum into online curriculum, the Victim Assistance Training Online, VAT Online, into the leadership online that, that, Herman is talking about into so many things that are more accessible, that are either only online, partially hybrid online, in person, that makes it easy for victim advocates and so many of our allies who aren't victim advocates to get quality training. So, I'm doing a shoutout for the continuation of the spirit of the National Victim Assistance Academy that lives on with OVC today.

KRIS ROSE: And not to mention OVC TTAC, which has been around for a very long time. And we continue to provide expert training and technical assistance for free to the field in so many different areas, and we have a database of experts. And I bet all three of you are in that database that can go out to different jurisdictions and provide training in so many different areas. I mean, just yesterday I was on a site visit to a violence intervention program in Baltimore and was telling them about OVC TTAC and encouraging them to apply for customized training for them to be able to help bring all of their people up to speed in particular areas around trauma-informed care. So, you know, it's without the training and technical assistance, it may not be the most glamorous part of VOCA, but it is the heart and soul of a lot of the work that we do.

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: So, Kris, you know, one of the--you shared that you had received over 450 applications for discretionary grants, and they were for basic services, and God, to have 70 peer reviewers, that’s that’s that’s amazing. But it reminded me of Vision 21 and some of the findings, and especially to your point about basic needs. And one of the findings in Vision 21 was service providers struggle to maintain basic services for crime victims and lack the resources and capacity to extend assistance to crime victims from marginalized populations and to victims of new types of crime. So, that was one of the major findings in the Vision 21, along with, you know, integration of research and evaluation, the lack of legal assistance to support crime victims, and technology and globalization. It just speaks to what you were saying about, you know, programs just attempting to provide basic services and, and applying for that, those discretionary grants. 

KRIS ROSE: Thank you for sharing that, Herman. It just goes to show that there's always a need for, you know, those basic services. That doesn't go away.

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: Yeah. Absolutely.

STEVE SIEGEL: And every one of your publications that you've put out, which really mark history from the president's task force on through, they really give the entire field, whether you can come to NOVA conferences or anyone's meetings, you can get them in your office, into your home, and read them and understand that there are people thinking through these issues and giving you ideas about how to implement them in your community. It's a wonderful legacy that you leave behind written for all of us.

KRIS ROSE: Let's talk about the future. OVC funded, recently, a new program called the Victim Advocacy Corps, which trains college students in minority-serving institutions to be victim advocates and then places them, so that they can practice what they learn, because we know that they are the future of victim advocacy. If we don't engage young people in this work, we won't have anyone to pass the torch to. Can you, each of you give me your perspective on how important it is to engage young people in victim services and how this frames the way that you look at the future.

ANNE SEYMOUR: I, I Kris, you know, the Victim Advocacy Corps, OVC, and the work of NOVA, to me is the most important thing that our field has ever done. So kudos to you all. I want us all to just recognize that the youth of today have experienced and practiced lockdowns in their schools for mass shootings. They have themselves been victims of crime or experienced trauma or victimization in their homes. They have witnessed domestic violence. I think they offer a lens that is so unique and so important, and too often their lived experience--that will guide their approach to victim assistance. And so taking their lived experiences and providing them with training on evidence-based practices and how to be trauma informed to me is our best investment in the future of our field. Hands down.

STEVE SIEGEL: It was over 20 years ago that with VOCA funds and Colorado victims assistance funds, we started an internship program at COVA, the Colorado Organization for Victim Assistance, where we went and paid a stipend to college students who had an interest, and particularly college students of diverse backgrounds. And that program exists still today. It's grown. It's flourished. Many of the leading professionals who run agencies came from those early internship programs. It's so important that we intentionally have succession plans. Every industry, every business needs one. But in victim services, we need to intentionally go about building our next generation of leaders, and workers, and people who will carry the torch. If we've been around a long time, that means we better have someone behind us.

KRIS ROSE: That's right. Herman, do you have any thoughts on this?

HERMAN MILLHOLLAND: Kris, I was just so inspired earlier at the NOVA conference with the Victim Advocacy Corps and all of the interns that NOVA has. And I was inspired because when you go to these national conferences and you walk around and you see the excitement, and then you see all of these young faces, you realize that the youth are really the future for us in victim services. And to have them sit in your workshops and ask really great questions, really wanting to know as much as they can, you know, serving as a sponge. But one of the things that just, I tell you, tugged at my heart and made me just so incredibly happy was meeting a young man named Elijah Lee.

Elijah, 16 years old, who was the recent recipient of a Crime Victim Services Award for tomorrow's leader, he was just so full of life and energy and really gave some incredible speeches. And, I mean, at 16, creating a nonprofit called Hear Our Voices. I mean, this is, this is the future of victim services. This young man really inspired me and made me feel, you know, just really great in knowing that there are all these young folks out there ready to go out and do great work on behalf of crime victims and survivors. So, I'm just thoroughly encouraged, Kris.

KRIS ROSE: And I know Elijah, and I felt the same way when I met him. And the interesting thing about Elijah is he didn't come to this work as a survivor himself. He came to this work because of a friend of his who was experiencing violence at home. And again, it goes to that, you know what we keep coming back to over and over again, that everyone has a part to play. It doesn't matter how old you are, how young you are, where you work, there is there is a place for that, you know, reaching out a helping hand and being able to connect, be a connector and connect folks with, with the services they need and to just listen.

I mean, we forget how important it is just to listen without judgment. And yeah, Elijah is just one of the many amazing young people that we have been so lucky to meet this year and who inspire us every day. But let me tell you, you three inspire me and you have inspired me since I started in this field. 1985 was my first big job and quickly learned who each one of you were, and the work that you were doing, and have continued to follow you and admire you for all the years since. So I just want to thank you so much for being part of this conversation. Sometimes we take VOCA and the benefits that VOCA has given us for granted. And we shouldn't because it was a very empty landscape before VOCA came along, and we should all pay tribute to what we have accomplished. And thank Congress and thank the presidents who came before that had, were wise enough to know how much this would help our country. So I want to thank each one of you from the bottom of my heart for participating in this podcast to really celebrate VOCA.

STEVE SIEGEL: And on behalf of the three of us, we thank you and your predecessors in the leadership you provided at OVC, because none of it would have happened without you.

KRIS ROSE: Thank you.

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